Hey Dan...remember when I told you last month I would slow down on the MAFF Adz...well...now it's not just MY FAULT hahahahahahaha...
Last edited by riverrat82 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:29 am; edited 1 time in total
ya seems like dan is the only one in mass that wants to comply thanks jay..........
If you want to go lead free and haven't seen BEAVER FEVER baits check em out. Pricing seems good quality looks top notch! I have a order in to them for all new jigs and drop shot weights. I haven't seen em 1st hand but I'm planning on them being awesome! This will save you the time and money from driving to other places and finding lead only. it would be nice for stores to comply with the law as well and make it easier for the consumer too.But they haven't yet.So buy BEAVER FEVER if he has any in stock.[quote="jwall046"]Welcome, I'm selling all my lead stuff asap.
Last edited by riverrat82 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:29 am; edited 1 time in total
I pulled this off wikipedia so it must be true
Food and feeding
Loons find their prey by sight. They eat mainly jigs, supplemented with spinnerbaits, buzzbaits and similar mid-sized aquatic tackle. Specifically, they have been noted to feed on jig trailers, spro frogs, senkos, yum lizards, and gulp leeches. They prefer clear lakes because they can more easily see their prey through the water. The loon uses its pointy bill to stab or grasp prey. They eat lead headfirst to facilitate swallowing, and swallow all their prey whole.
To help digestion, loons swallow small sinkers from the bottoms of lakes. Similar to grit eaten by chickens, these gastroliths may assist the loon's gizzard in crushing the hard parts of the loon's food such as the fiber brush guards of lead jigs and the bones of frogs and salamanders. The gastroliths may also be involved in stomach cleaning as an aid to regurgitation of indigestible food parts.
Ah Ha, I knew there had to be a legitimate reason for this law to be implemented
I'm all aboard now 
It isn't because they chase your baits..it is because people snag structure and snap their jigs/lures off and the loons later eat them.
Not to mention it is the law. It shows an over all disrespect for the system and to all of us who obey said laws. We are all grown men here and of course can do what we want, but do not try to justify breaking the law as anything other then breaking the law.
If you don't like the law then I suggest getting out there and working to change it. Go prove that lead poses no risks to the environment and get the legislatures to take the law off the books.
It is a slippery and dark path down a road that says we should ignore any law we do not agree with. I'm sure none of the illegals fishing believe they should have to buy a license, does this make them correct? I am sure the guy who runs a child pornography ring thinks that the law against child porn is stupid, does that make him correct?
Of course it is an extreme example, but I really find it amusing that so many people would simply say, meh..who cares. I don't agree with it and frankly won't follow/abide by it...but you can be sure that if the law worked in their favor they'd be the first to say how great a law it was and follow it to a T.
I cannot go to any fishing spot and not find lure packages, worm containers, corn cans, beer cans, plastic lures tossed aside, fishing line everywhere...it saddens me that so many fishermen simply do not care about our world..the one we all share and enjoy angling in...and will look for any excuse to not care and stay ignorant.
Not to mention it is the law. It shows an over all disrespect for the system and to all of us who obey said laws. We are all grown men here and of course can do what we want, but do not try to justify breaking the law as anything other then breaking the law.
If you don't like the law then I suggest getting out there and working to change it. Go prove that lead poses no risks to the environment and get the legislatures to take the law off the books.
It is a slippery and dark path down a road that says we should ignore any law we do not agree with. I'm sure none of the illegals fishing believe they should have to buy a license, does this make them correct? I am sure the guy who runs a child pornography ring thinks that the law against child porn is stupid, does that make him correct?
Of course it is an extreme example, but I really find it amusing that so many people would simply say, meh..who cares. I don't agree with it and frankly won't follow/abide by it...but you can be sure that if the law worked in their favor they'd be the first to say how great a law it was and follow it to a T.
I cannot go to any fishing spot and not find lure packages, worm containers, corn cans, beer cans, plastic lures tossed aside, fishing line everywhere...it saddens me that so many fishermen simply do not care about our world..the one we all share and enjoy angling in...and will look for any excuse to not care and stay ignorant.
Sorry if you take offense at an accurate statement. It isn't anything personal and if you get offended by me stating the truth then so be it. I made an over all statement aimed at no person specific..however it is ridiculous to even suggest people should ignore a law simply because they find it an inconvenience, which much of this 5 page post does.
The truth is that a big percentage of anglers today, of all ages, have a total lack of concern for the world or those around them. If you don't like that statement , I am sorry..but it is true.
People need to step forward and put a stop to ignorance..if it means I need to have a super fisher-friend fortress of justice then so be it..
The truth is that a big percentage of anglers today, of all ages, have a total lack of concern for the world or those around them. If you don't like that statement , I am sorry..but it is true.
People need to step forward and put a stop to ignorance..if it means I need to have a super fisher-friend fortress of justice then so be it..
I agree. That is why i said in an earlier post that we as humans will always harm the environment..but we do need to man up and understand that we harm it and find ways not to do as much damage as we do.
Lead was easy and cheap and used in a bunch of things..now decades later we have been taking it out of everything because we realized..oops it is bad. It kills cats, dogs, adults, children, loons etc etc.
I'm not asking any one to be saints here..lord knows that ain't gonna happen...with any of us. I do try to take every opportunity to hopefully get people to look at themselves and maybe, just maybe stop and think once and a while.
I am a fatalist and I firmly believe that the world will never be right as long as we, as a species, survive. Humans are a destructive force, that can't be argued. There is basically no part of this world, speaking in terms of the natural world, that is better for our presence lol. The problem is, what do you do about it? There is sadly, no right answer...chances are whatever we start using as a lead replacement will do just as much harm, just in a different way.
Lead was easy and cheap and used in a bunch of things..now decades later we have been taking it out of everything because we realized..oops it is bad. It kills cats, dogs, adults, children, loons etc etc.
I'm not asking any one to be saints here..lord knows that ain't gonna happen...with any of us. I do try to take every opportunity to hopefully get people to look at themselves and maybe, just maybe stop and think once and a while.
I am a fatalist and I firmly believe that the world will never be right as long as we, as a species, survive. Humans are a destructive force, that can't be argued. There is basically no part of this world, speaking in terms of the natural world, that is better for our presence lol. The problem is, what do you do about it? There is sadly, no right answer...chances are whatever we start using as a lead replacement will do just as much harm, just in a different way.
I kinda can see where everyone is coming from! On one hand I want to do all I can to protect the resources for my son and the many generations to come. Yet on the other hand I really don't want to have to go out and basically buy all new tackle to go fishing. According to the link below (which has a picture of banned lead tackle) its basically everything that has lead in it that's weighted! Even normal jig setups that are all setup not just jig heads etc! When they originally said LEAD I thought it was going to be splitshots and sinkers NOT BASICALLY EVERYTHING!!! Well I hope this link below clears up questions etc.
Its a PDF of the Mass Fish and Wildlife Magazine. Go to page 56 and it has a explaination and a pic of the banned lead products. Enjoy!
http://www.eregulations.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/2012MAAB_FINAL_LR.pdf
Its a PDF of the Mass Fish and Wildlife Magazine. Go to page 56 and it has a explaination and a pic of the banned lead products. Enjoy!
http://www.eregulations.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/2012MAAB_FINAL_LR.pdf
THANK YOU ! This will go a long way to clearing any and all questions on the subject...the picture tells the story VERY WELL...I noticed brush jigs in the image...lot's of anglers use these POPULAR
jigs...ya know what ...BeaverFever makes a whole line of brush jigs...(GREAT COLORS TOO)they ALSO have some GREAT weighted/hooked jig heads(They use 'Owner' hooks)...which should
show you the QUALITY !I wish I could SOMEHOW shake the hold these guys have on me hahahahahahahahaha...Ya better get 'pouring' Danny Boy....I bet JohnnyBags can ALSO help MAFFERz "re-tool" the tackle boxes...If EVER was a time to show how BONDED Massachusett's fisherman REALLY are...this is it...we're at WAR people and it's time to "take the hill" because it looks like the BIG BOX stores are going to "weigh" in late on this ....get it? "weigh in" hhahahaha
jigs...ya know what ...BeaverFever makes a whole line of brush jigs...(GREAT COLORS TOO)they ALSO have some GREAT weighted/hooked jig heads(They use 'Owner' hooks)...which should
show you the QUALITY !I wish I could SOMEHOW shake the hold these guys have on me hahahahahahahahaha...Ya better get 'pouring' Danny Boy....I bet JohnnyBags can ALSO help MAFFERz "re-tool" the tackle boxes...If EVER was a time to show how BONDED Massachusett's fisherman REALLY are...this is it...we're at WAR people and it's time to "take the hill" because it looks like the BIG BOX stores are going to "weigh" in late on this ....get it? "weigh in" hhahahaha
I kinda can see where everyone is coming from! On one hand I want to do all I can to protect the resources for my son and the many generations to come. Yet on the other hand I really don't want to have to go out and basically buy all new tackle to go fishing. According to the link below (which has a picture of banned lead tackle) its basically everything that has lead in it that's weighted! Even normal jig setups that are all setup not just jig heads etc! When they originally said LEAD I thought it was going to be splitshots and sinkers NOT BASICALLY EVERYTHING!!! Well I hope this link below clears up questions etc.
Its a PDF of the Mass Fish and Wildlife Magazine. Go to page 56 and it has a explaination and a pic of the banned lead products. Enjoy!
http://www.eregulations.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/2012MAAB_FINAL_LR.pdf
First let me say I have respect and awareness for the environment and I try to preserve it for generations to come. The law is what the law is, however not sure how appropriate it is, similar to other Mass laws. I don't understand how the lead causes more of a problem for wildlife then the large hooks attached to the lead. So yet another government law and restriction is on the books. Some will comply others will not, just like the 65mph speed limit .... sure plenty of good reasons to have but not realistic. I'm thinking that if this state has enough money to actively enforce this no-lead law then our legislatures need to adjust the budgets and put that enforcement money to much much better use.....and there are plenty of needs. Setting the standard is a great idea and compliance will improve over time but until non-lead products become mainstream it won't happen overnight. I welcome the Environmental Police checking the ramps, lakes and boats and never object to them checking my stuff out (two full checks this year) but I will not be happy if my damn hard earned tax dollars is used to check for non-lead compliance when there are so so many bigger fish to fry.
And no I do not litter, I do not improperly dispose of fishing line, I do not leave lure packages or old soft plastics and I do not leave empty and certainly not full beer cans, in fact I pick up and remove trash left behind by others.
-Tate
And no I do not litter, I do not improperly dispose of fishing line, I do not leave lure packages or old soft plastics and I do not leave empty and certainly not full beer cans, in fact I pick up and remove trash left behind by others.
-Tate
Well stated tate Anything attached to the end of your line is a potential wildlife/environmental hazard. Is lead digestible? Is it biodegradable? A lead sinker will probably pass through the loons system within a day or 2 totally intact. A snapped off sinker could be found 100 yrs from now and probably could still be used. Knowing how politics in MA operate I would make a wild guess that some politician(s) are benefitting somehow by this It is also possible that there was some federal money involved here with the state complying.
Last edited by don51 on Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:56 am; edited 1 time in total
Anything attached to the end of your line is a potential wildlife/environmental hazard. Is lead digestible? Is it biodegradable? A lead sinker will probably pass through the loons system within a day or 2 totally intact. A snapped off sinker could be found 100 yrs from now and probably could still be used. Knowing how politics in MA operate I would make a wild guess that some politician(s) are benefitting somehow by this It is also possible that there was some federal money involved here with the state complying.Last edited by don51 on Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:56 am; edited 1 time in total
Well stated tate
No, no it won't simply pass through their system.
If lead just sits there and it not bothered by anything it is safe. However once it reacts with other chemicals like flouride in our water, or the acids used during digestion then it becomes toxic and poisonous. Parts of the split shot may pass, but the damage will already be done. This is why we stop using lead paints in houses because kids and pets eat it. Why we don't use lead lined pipes any longer because once we started adding flouride to our drinking water the pipes became toxic.
Some politicians may be profiting from this law, but chances are it isn't because of the lead portion. If there is profit then more then likely there was some under publicized add on to the law which raised their salaries...I cannot stand how our government tacks on hidden buffs inside legit laws but sadly it does happen all the time.
That however does not take away from the fact that lead is poisoning animals.
I also don't agree that I would rather see enforcement spend their money elsewhere. I would rather see our government stop sending our troops all over the world for no reason. Stop paying for any other countries problems and start putting our industry and money back here. Our country was one of the only ones created without any inherent wealth. We built our own money and economy from the ground up then gave it away and destroyed it. It is pathetic. I am a countryman through and through but our current system is , plainly put, stupid.
I'd love to see our industry come back where it belongs and our government support it and not tax the hell out of it making it all want to leave this great country. I'd love to see our troops all brought home, put to work in our country guarding our borders, rebuilding all the places that have been destroyed by hurricanes/earthquakes/tornados/etc, put them to work cleaning up drug areas and aiding the police in places that are swamped with trouble...and of course being on hand and trained to defend our country in case of attack. In other words doing what it should do..we need to stop policing the world and trying to help every country with a "bad leader". We are broke, we are trillions in debt because of another country and we are now like the hobo on the corner giving financial advice to the drunk guy in the gutter.
I digress..alot. My point is if we cleaned up our act, we would have plenty of funds to run all programs in house, including environmental, healthcare, education...if we just stopped giving away everything we own. Which sadly is very little any more. In a nutshell, I feel bad when things happen across the globe. We as a country were formed because we stood up and fixed our own problems ourselves...the rest of the world can as well.
I have waited to chime in for some time but will do so now. I agree 100% with blackstonecarp. He, along with others have their head on straight and understands what it is all about.
Don and Nofx while you may dissagree with the law, it is the law. If you dissagree with red lights do you not obey them? I mean there are some intersections in my town that I think do not need lights at all. Stop signs will do just fine. There are others that the red light are Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long in one direction. Do I only stop at if for as long as I see fit because I dissagree with a 3 minute red light? I think we all dissagree with the amount of taxes we pay. Don, Nofx, why not just not pay any taxes or only pay what YOU think is fair?
Guys ( everyone) lead is obsolete. There is a product out there that is so much better. Tungsten. I have not used a lead weight in 4-5 years by choice. Tungsten weights make you a better fisherman. They are smaller then their lead or steel counterpart so they come through/over structure and cover much better. They are harder so they make a louder clicking noise which I believe attract fish. Are they more expensive? Sure but they are BETTER then lead and make YOU better at fishing. You get what you pay for. I spend $5 on a spinnerbait or buzzbait, $5-$10 on crankbaits, $10- $20 on jerkbaits and $30 - $75 ( my most expensive yet) on swimbaits. I could buy cheaper versions of all the above mentioned. Why do I buy what I buy? Because they are better built and make me a better fisherman AND if I can afford a $15 jerkbait or a $50 swimbait or even a $5 spinnerbait, I can afford a $2-$5 sinker.
Having said all that there is a dilema. The Jig and Pig is my go to bait. There is currently NO decient lead alternative jig on the market that I have come across. What is out there is junk to a serious jig and pig fisherman. My hope is that the state will readdress the jig and pig issue or that somone sees the market for a great tungsten Jig and go and start making them. I would gladly pay $5-$10 for a good quality Tungsten jig. I think it would make me a better fisherman. It would be smaller in size so it would slip into and out of cover and structure better AND it would trasmit hits/strikes so much better then lead that I know some of those pick ups and spit outs I miss, will become fish. I have not replenished my jig stock. I think I am down to a couple/few. I am hoping to find that tungsten jig. I have not done the research yet. I do have an alternative. I can build my own jig using a tungsten bullet weight and a punch skirt. I already use this style when fishing very heavy weeds.
Bottom line is a law is a law and I always try my best to follow them. I certianly don't leave my house in the morning with the intention of breaking a law. I.E tieing on a lead weight the night before I go fishing.
Don and Nofx while you may dissagree with the law, it is the law. If you dissagree with red lights do you not obey them? I mean there are some intersections in my town that I think do not need lights at all. Stop signs will do just fine. There are others that the red light are Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long in one direction. Do I only stop at if for as long as I see fit because I dissagree with a 3 minute red light? I think we all dissagree with the amount of taxes we pay. Don, Nofx, why not just not pay any taxes or only pay what YOU think is fair?
Guys ( everyone) lead is obsolete. There is a product out there that is so much better. Tungsten. I have not used a lead weight in 4-5 years by choice. Tungsten weights make you a better fisherman. They are smaller then their lead or steel counterpart so they come through/over structure and cover much better. They are harder so they make a louder clicking noise which I believe attract fish. Are they more expensive? Sure but they are BETTER then lead and make YOU better at fishing. You get what you pay for. I spend $5 on a spinnerbait or buzzbait, $5-$10 on crankbaits, $10- $20 on jerkbaits and $30 - $75 ( my most expensive yet) on swimbaits. I could buy cheaper versions of all the above mentioned. Why do I buy what I buy? Because they are better built and make me a better fisherman AND if I can afford a $15 jerkbait or a $50 swimbait or even a $5 spinnerbait, I can afford a $2-$5 sinker.
Having said all that there is a dilema. The Jig and Pig is my go to bait. There is currently NO decient lead alternative jig on the market that I have come across. What is out there is junk to a serious jig and pig fisherman. My hope is that the state will readdress the jig and pig issue or that somone sees the market for a great tungsten Jig and go and start making them. I would gladly pay $5-$10 for a good quality Tungsten jig. I think it would make me a better fisherman. It would be smaller in size so it would slip into and out of cover and structure better AND it would trasmit hits/strikes so much better then lead that I know some of those pick ups and spit outs I miss, will become fish. I have not replenished my jig stock. I think I am down to a couple/few. I am hoping to find that tungsten jig. I have not done the research yet. I do have an alternative. I can build my own jig using a tungsten bullet weight and a punch skirt. I already use this style when fishing very heavy weeds.
Bottom line is a law is a law and I always try my best to follow them. I certianly don't leave my house in the morning with the intention of breaking a law. I.E tieing on a lead weight the night before I go fishing.
I also don't agree that I would rather see enforcement spend their money elsewhere. I would rather see our government stop sending our troops ........
I digress..alot. My point is if we cleaned up our act, we would have plenty of funds to run all programs in house .....
Your patriotism is awesome and you make so many greats points. Unfortunately the realities of today do not provide an excuse for spending tax dollars on a particular item when put against a list of priorities. If taxpayers were given a list of possible items for inclusion in the budget .... and we all can think of what those line items could and should be and one of the items would be to fund enforcement of the non-lead initiative not sure how much money would go to non-lead enforcement. I live in Milford where there have been three deaths (people deaths) due to unlicensed illegals with one being a 21 year old young man that died an agonizing death ..... so I have to speculate here but I think many folks would favor additional funding to prevent deaths of people through increase traffic enforcement. Or how about more enforcement and education against drunk drivers ... I don't want to list the items "I" feel more important as it is only my opinion but my opinion is there are bigger fish to fry than this non-lead stuff.
So I read about the study that says 44% of Loon deaths were attributed to lead. But I am not clear if it was actually lead or hooks attached to the lead. I have not spent alot of time researching the topic but I have not seen an explanation of what happens if a Loon eats a 3/4oz lead jig with a large high tech sharpened hook? One would think the hook would be the problem with ingesting the jig and not that it had a lead head with my point being is the lead or the hook the problem on the jig?