Lead ban in NH, article attacks fisherman.

This seems to be a horse that will never die......We spent the money in Massachusetts.....nobody went broke....Loons still died and nobody was ever checked for lead.....Seems to me that if we all just nod our heads and when it's time to replace lead....get non-lead.....There's plenty of it available and aside from Tungsten it's not expensive.....Oh and who did a study on hooks? I bet they kill some Loons too....JMHO

Grampa

It's a valid point, though not enough time has passed to begin to say whether the lead ban has been effective. If only 5-10 loons were dying each year from lead before the ban, it would take decades to statistically measure the impact.

Papa bear, you make a good point. I know all about lead paint my 5 year old had lead poisoning as a baby. So there is a ban on lead paint, but let me assure you lead paint is still everywhere. They are not stripping every building and apartment painted 10 years ago because of a ban. Only when they absolutely have to. Lead lures are not killing bass, and something as simple as roperly holding a fish when caught takes no time or effort. Yet I still see people on thi sight can not even handle that, like laying a bass on the snow for 5 minutes to take picture or putting it on the ground at all. It's easy for me to say these things because I know for a fact that this can hurt a bass, and I have an incredible appreciation for this fish. Love everyone I ever caught. Foes everyone know the facts about lead, the scientific facts? No they know what they have been told and what they've read then come on here and talk like they have a phd in this stuff. Not you papa bear just some people .If you could prove to me that I would harm a bass with a lead jig today, you would see me never use on again.

People use lead fishing for hundreds of years. There are tons of lead in the water. We would be all retard now by drinking it for hundreds of years. According to this bullshit theory all looms would be dead by now. The politicians who made these kind of regulation are not fishermen. Non-Leader jig is expensive and it doesn't feel like lead jig or tungsten jig. It doesn't have that kind of sensitive.

WILLY WINS, LOL

I love all the great arguments from the other side as well.

Will, you spout about anyone else having a PHD in this, I forgot that you did which makes you far more of an expert.

Yes, we have been using lead in various things for decades..because it is cheap. It is also why we have some of the issues we have now. Why do you think loons are in decline? Because this is a problem that has been going on for quite some time.

Yes, hooks without lead kill loons as well. If you look at the study there are other factors killing loons. The lead tackle issue only addresses a part of the problem that they can seek to fix, in essence slowing the deaths per year. The 5 or 6 number ( average ) is one they are trying to get rid of entirely. Loons will still die yearly..they are merely trying to bring the number of deaths into more of a sustainable factor.

As to the drinking it would be retarded comment. You sir are an idiot and clearly don't understand how lead works. Lead is stable in it's natural state. It will not dissolve in the water and will not poison water we drink. It does not poison animals swimming in said water. It only becomes poisonous when it reacts with various chemicals..some of these occur in digestion hence the problem with eating lead versus handling lead. Once you swallow it, it begins to break down..it won't poison you in your hand, but in your stomach it will.

Interesting fact about that is the use of fluoride in drinking water. Do some research on that and see how lead pipes react to fluoride..now there is a concern about drinking. That however is another story.

Again it still disgusts me that anglers take such a simplistic and selfish view of the world. We all love to be out on the water but that vast majority don't give a damn about the water..at all. So much trash, lures, line and everything else. the comments here just show how rampant ignorance is in society.

Yes, we all impact the world with our cars and computers and basically everything that we do..we can also choose to make less of an impact. Yes I drive a car, but that doesn't excuse me from then tossing all my garbage along the banks..simply because I am already making an impact.

This is the same as fish care. The only difference is Will, that the fish care you advocate only benefits you. You're limiting your scope to what affects you. Loons don't affect you so you don't care..but you see a damaged bass and o my. Anglers need to think more big picture and guard the whole of the waterways..not just specific fish.

And Will..I dun understand your comment about "only seeing what they read" because let us be honest..that is how people learn. I have done my research on lead, I understand enough to know how it works and why things happen and don't.

"It's a valid point, though not enough time has passed to begin to say whether the lead ban has been effective. If only 5-10 loons were dying each year from lead before the ban, it would take decades to statistically measure the impact."

also, even if everyone switched to non-lead, the benefits probably can't be realized for at least several years since lead sinkers and jigs are already present in the environment from previous use. i too think it'll take awhile before we know the effectiveness of the ban.

"It's a valid point, though not enough time has passed to begin to say whether the lead ban has been effective. If only 5-10 loons were dying each year from lead before the ban, it would take decades to statistically measure the impact."

also, even if everyone switched to non-lead, the benefits probably can't be realized for at least several years since lead sinkers and jigs are already present in the environment from previous use. i too think it'll take awhile before we know the effectiveness of the ban.

True, but isn't that the point of science? To study data, form a course of action based on best probable solutions to achieve an outcome at some future date?

To be fair, as has been stated there is already a lead ban in place, this is merely an extension on it. This extension actually changes very little yet is met as the end of fishing in NH. Seeing that it will take years to see the effects is it not practical to start now? The goal is to save the loon population and bring it into a more sustainable birth/death ratio..

We as humans have a very negative affect on the world around us. In the midst of overpopulation, over harvesting, over taxing resources, pollution and so on, we need to start finding ways to lessen our impacts now to make a change on the future, before the things we look to save no longer exist.

my post was intended to say that immediate results can't be expected and that it'll take years. i wasn't making any argument against the ban.

Blackstone is exactly the person I was talking about when I said people love to hear them selves talk and show how educated they THINK they are. Over the years of reading things on this website I must say you are by far the most long winded person on here so congradulations. Yes we all learn by reading but if you read that the sky is green does that make it a fact? Do youi have to write 8 paragraph responses about what you think shoukld be done? I guess what you say about my concern about fish handling is selfish, I'm a Bass fisherman, not an enviormental conservationalist. Bottom line. I hope you are not insinuating that I polute because I will not even so much as let a 1 inch piece on fishing line touch the water or land. All trash comes off the water and in my truck with me always. Eveyone should do this no question. I am not really interested in an online pissing match because everone is very opinionated from their computer. I can be found fishing from the Charles river boat dock in waltham most nights at 5:30 pm. Come down some night and we can talk face to face. Bring some of your books and educate me

Blackstone is exactly the person I was talking about when I said people love to hear them selves talk and show how educated they THINK they are. Over the years of reading things on this website I must say you are by far the most long winded person on here so congradulations. Yes we all learn by reading but if you read that the sky is green does that make it a fact? Do youi have to write 8 paragraph responses about what you think shoukld be done? I guess what you say about my concern about fish handling is selfish, I'm a Bass fisherman, not an enviormental conservationalist. Bottom line. I hope you are not insinuating that I polute because I will not even so much as let a 1 inch piece on fishing line touch the water or land. All trash comes off the water and in my truck with me always. Eveyone should do this no question. I am not really interested in an online pissing match because everone is very opinionated from their computer. I can be found fishing from the Charles river boat dock in waltham most nights at 5:30 pm. Come down some night and we can talk face to face. Bring some of your books and educate me

Hahaha..seriously. Pot meet kettle and all that I guess. People like you never fail to crack me up. You can't have an actual discussion so you try to turn into some sort of pissing match or "come out and we can see who is manlier" kind of thing.

I am sorry that my use of paragraphs upsets you. I am sorry that I speak rationally and logically and you find that offensive. The bottom line is this is a place for people to talk and discuss. I don't understand why my doing so offends you so much.

This is a forum, a place for people to exchange opinions and thoughts. I am sorry you can't do that without making it some personal I am better then you thing. I don't understand why so many people come to places like this but never want anyone to express anything except agreement with them. Yes, my posts are long, because I have things to say, that is why I am here ..and what this place is for. Shame you cannot seem to grasp that concept.

I stand by everything that I say. The vast majority of fishermen are a disgrace that could care less about the world outside of their boat. All it takes is any trip to any water body to see the trash and crap left by "fishermen" to understand that. I see no reason that taking steps to make the world a better place is met with such hostility from people who should fully support a stronger wetlands and water ecology. Lead is one of the things that isn't needed and can easily be done without and the removal can have a positive impact.

For the record, if you've read any of my posts you know how I feel about fish care as well, and I am glad you look after your fish and advocate others to do so..I say yours is selfish, however, because you will fight someone about fish care because it affects you. The rest of the water's issues don't immediately affect you so you disregard them as pointless. My stance through any of my posts has always been in advocacy of anglers taking responsibility for our waterways, through fish care, catch and release, clean ups, lead removals, angler education and so on. I am an advocate for conservation and have/will always speak out for it online and in real life through various volunteer work etc. This is one a few subjects that I am passionate about hence my long windedness.

Last edited by blackstonecarp on Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:49 pm; edited 1 time in total

my post was intended to say that immediate results can't be expected and that it'll take years. i wasn't making any argument against the ban.

True enough and I read it/took it partially out of context then. I didn't mean anything bad by my follow-up just more reinforcing that was why it was important now, versus waiting.

So, you have said, fishing lead in the water supply has no danger to human. The lead used in deep water fishing won't eaten by looms. There are areas you can hardly ever snag a lure, yet there are areas you will snag half the time. Looms likes clear waterway. You don't see them everywhere where there are lots of human activites. In the end, how many lead weights snagged in the water depth that looms will mistakenly eat it? I can see a reason banning lead weight on the waterway where looms call them home, such as Wachusett Reservior, Quabbin Reservior. I tell you it is a bullshit to ban lead weight in all the waterways. Look at Charles river, Concord River, Nashua River, Merrimack River, some local ponds, you never see a loom live there. So, what's the problem? They are assuming every lead weight snagged will be eaten by looms. Well, we all know assumption is the biggest mother fucker.

They are not assuming that all lead will be eaten, but that it can be eaten. Not just lead sitting in a lake bed but lost in fish as well. Say someone hooks a bass, loses it in weed. the bass has the lead in it..the Loon eats the bass. Loon dies of lead poisoning.

There are multiple possibilities, and more then just Loons picking lead off the bottom.

I ask why it matters so much if you use lead or not? Considering there are plenty of alternatives within similar price ranges that have been available for quite some time. What does it matter to you, if the jig you toss is lead or not? If there is , even a small chance, that using non lead could make the world a better place why not make that change?

They are not assuming that all lead will be eaten, but that it can be eaten. Not just lead sitting in a lake bed but lost in fish as well. Say someone hooks a bass, loses it in weed. the bass has the lead in it..the Loon eats the bass. Loon dies of lead poisoning.

There are multiple possibilities, and more then just Loons picking lead off the bottom.

I ask why it matters so much if you use lead or not? Considering there are plenty of alternatives within similar price ranges that have been available for quite some time. What does it matter to you, if the jig you toss is lead or not? If there is , even a small chance, that using non lead could make the world a better place why not make that change?

Steel weight is too big and smell bad. I use tungsten weights in nice places like Wachusett res. If I go to some shitty places I don't care if I use lead or not. There ain't any looms live there. The non-lead jig is expensive, period! I can buy nice quality lead jig for under 2 dollars, sometimes. Sorry, I use lead tube jig head. Life find its way. There are numerous fishermen die every year as well. As far as lead is main reason to cause looms death? I don't buy that story. Do you think tungsten taste better than lead? The tungsten weights maybe stuck inside birds body somewhere that can't be s*** out.